Egge’s tactica: Scourge’s problem with their own building

So without no pressure from the outside at all I thought to post a little earlier than intended. I am currently testing my army to the next invasion and have actually gotten in a few games with the new stuff. I thought to give my opinion how these works as well as one of the main issues I have as a Scourge player – how I get my home objective off table.

Swedish dads

Starting up I thought to give some fast comments on the new stuff. Some might be repetitive on what I have stated before but I will give my opinion again on some. There is no order to the below. So the list is not a “best unit list” or a “my favorit list”. You just have to read between my lines in what I like the most.

1. Monitors

These little buggers are now a mainstay in my army. Although I do like the Minders and Prowlers these guys are very versatile and add so much to a Scourge army. With an average of 9 DP on a Medusa from eight of them on one round they are just awesome. Also they average 8 DP on armour 8 infantry with DF that is manning the walls. With basically all factions now having some stuff that can man the wall and shoot rather decent I have found these guys always get a part of the game. Even without that they can explode and hurt stuff anyway. Their versatility is absolutely making me liking them more. In combination of a crash-dummy card you get the E10 blast and the E12 blast in the same turn. I consider these the best scout by far though I still see a point with the rest of the scouts.

2. Vampires

These are a pretty weak unit. Still I have used them and they are pretty nice a point fillers. I think they could be slightly cheaper as I consider the Minders better but as a small filler to fill up your army points? Then they are really nice. I suggest always placing these on a transport that is in your biggest and most dangerous battlegroup so you get extra boost when activating that important big battlegroup.

3. Screamer and Raider

The Screamer surprised me on how effective it’s 40points were. Especially when it halves all enemy infantry attacks in CQB. That is extremely nice. I don’t really know why it has evasive instead of active counter measures but still then it can be shot at all the time. I think it is a worthwhile addition to any Scourge army but then we have something that is harder to use. The Raider which needs to be there as well. Though the Raider is a good anti enemy infantry it still basically only remove at best a single enemy base. Unless against armour 1 infantry. And yeah, fast flamers or combi-equipped flamer-tanks are the way to go (way to go Hawk – I really like they have found a better balance so that flame weapons will be used more).

The raider is one of the best double activation in the game. Move up 18″ and then you have a 9″ MF and 6″ range for a whole 33″ danger on two turns. With a MF+3″ card you can actually reach enemy side in turn 2 to flame. Though I don’t think it will work that well the possibility for long range double tapping is extremely potent. Especially later in the game.

But in the end I have found I rather want another infantry squad to search with instead. One infantry squad with Intruder is 94points+110 for this making the cost 204points. I can instead either get 2 squads of infantry in Intruders for 188pts or another favorit of mine with 6 infantry bases in invaders and Marauder forย 237points. For me that has a better value in the end. The 6 infantry base squad together with something that kills enemy as a support (Reapers for instance) makes for a hard hitting battlegroup to activate.

4. Eviscerators

These guys are the ones I have the least experience with among the new units. But I have this idea that I must have infantry able to find objectives and intel and as such the Eviscerators just doesn’t cut it. That -1 to search is just not good enough for me. For instance in the many situations you only get one search and then must leave the building.

5. Oppressor

The Oppressor is fun and can be an amazing Battlegroup with an Oppressor and 2 squads of Prowlers or take the Prowlers in one squad of eight and add something else to kill the enemy with as a support choice. Reavers for instance. But the Oppressor has a major flaw for me and that is that it tend to die often for me making it worse off in Focal point missions which Scourge struggle so much in. Or at least I struggle in focal points.

6. Corruptor

This unit I like. It makes Razorworms fun and the general concept is a really nice one. It can make sure you get another search in your initial building but make damn sure you save any assisted targeting cards for the worm shots. It is extremely irritating when it misses. Use it in the last turn for some easy focal point catching and shoot away a lot in Recon at your own home buildings as the worms can get single points with ease (just hope for no objective).

So that was a small summary of the units I have now gotten a little more time with.

Part 2 the actual tactica.

TOO mission picture

The problem for Scourge is that even with small effort most enemy can sink that home building turn 2. I have found most players actually are not stupid enough to take so many units that walk on and fire to sink a building in turn 1 at 1500pts. Not for Invasion where that tactic is very weak in 3 of 5 missions. But it is very possible to meet someone who is that stupid and it hurts like hell because an imbecile can see the problem for Scourge on this mission against such an army (not player – army). Getting the objective off is usually a matter of pumping in infantry in the building and hoping for the first turn.

Now there are several things that have happened later on. First the building size is 30 and I know there have been discussion of 40 DP as well. My general idea is that 30 is enough but that buildings should have body cover against anything that is not demolish. That means that a weapon that is not designed to destroy buildings are at best damaging on 3+ and then a 5+ for double damage. To take Katanas as an example you need 27 Katana shots to take down a large building today. usually this is done over 2 rounds together with the rest of the army so in turn 2 that building is turned to dust. But with body cover (or a better named rule that get people into the idea that single shot point specific weapons are not the best at the mass destruction needed to take down a building) you need 36 shots. That is a vital difference because my experience is that this would mean that you more often get an extreme failure and therefor reliability is gone away. Combine with a +1 acc for first turn shootingย (why not, hawk. Why help walk on armies so freaking much!) That would help quite a bit. And would mean that it takes 44 shots. Now we are talking.

While first turn shooting is so stupidly easy tactic and quite a boring on as well there is no denying it’s effectiveness. If the Scourge player does not get first turn or fail to find the objective in it’s few first activation that objective is toast. Without any skill whatsoever from the other player. An easy tactic that gives a huge advantage that hurts Scourge loads as well.

However we see that military complex and take and extract both are working to decrease the chance to take down a building on short notice. I do think it should be more though.

I would really love that +1 Acc or even +2 Acc first turn shooting against buildings just to force people to think twice about transports. When arriving to the field you shouldn’t have exactly all information and thus taking massive shots against a single building that early should be with some restrictions. Most factions in the DZC universe doesn’t just destroy buildings for fun and wait for confirmation of validity before starting to tear buildings down.

So we are up with a few strategies a Scourge player can do.

  1. Soak up fire. A smart way if you don’t feel like gambling is that you could insert one squad of infantry into the building and let people shoot it down. The infantry should die after a few damage points and if you insert them late in the turn they should survive until the building falls down. Soaking up a lot of fire is a good way to use buildings. So basically this means you have already given up on your home objective. Often I have found many players stop to shoot at the building after there is no infantry inside so in turn 2 you could activate, search and if nothing is found get out. The opponent now must chose to shoot at that building or prepare for the battle against your infantry in the other 3 buildings. Some will start to shoot at other buildings. Then in your last activation you jump in the old building with infantry again and hope for first turn next turn for a easier search of 5+. It gives some flexibility.
  2. Enter with more to get a good search start. For the Scourge you now have the possibility of 2 Infantry squads and a Corruptor in a battlegroup. That means that with only one activation you get 50% chance of finding the objective with 2 infantry squads and a worm. This is what I usually do but it depends on the risk I’m willing to take (many times it depends if I think I will get the first turn). But if you do not get the objective when you search – get out and start playing for the rest instead. But a 50% chance is better than none.
  3. Don’t enter first turn. Prepare to enter the other buildings instead. you could get several searches on the other buildings and suddenly the enemy must shoot at the center buildings instead. This is a way to use the fact that your enemy most likely have 1 or even 2 squads of infantry in their building and this will mean they have less infantry to fight off yours. The Scourge advantage of speed comes into play as well here.

So that is my opinions and suggestions. Hope you’d enjoy. Once again I have a problem rereading it as I’m away on vacation. So I hope for your understanding for any and all spelling and grammatical errors.

3 Responses to Egge’s tactica: Scourge’s problem with their own building

  1. J.D. Welch says:

    Thank you very much, Egge!

    (BTW, I didn’t realize you were away on vacation, I just thought you were lazing around your house. Thanks for taking the bait, I mean, taking the time to post while you’re away. Please go back to enjoying your vacation.). ๐Ÿ˜€

    I played OB’s Military Complex vs Major Awesome Friday night, but we modified it (your mod, I think) that the central WMD building is a bunker. I further modified it such that even tho it’s a bunker, it is still subject to falling masonry. This makes sense to me, since it’s still a building sticking up into the sky, not a hole in the ground, but it’s still indestructible. I call this “Arizona Military Complex”. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    I played UCM, and Maj. Awesome played his accursed, I mean “beloved” Shaltari. I was hoping to face his Resistance, which he has been playing recently and I have yet to contend with, but he hasn’t played his Shaltari in quite a while and missed them. He and I haven’t played in many months, and when we used to play weekly he usually brought his Shaltari, so I didn’t miss them, but que sera.

    In his Shaltari list he brought two Ocelots. Oh, joy. I had two squads of 3 Katanas each, an Eagle, and my Phoenix commander, plus two Falcons and two Longbows. Zero Ferrums. (I’m trying to prove a point, again…)

    So we started Turn 1 shooting the ever loving shit out of each others home buildings. Guess we’re just stupid that way.

    But I only put one squad of 2 bases of Legionnaires in my home building, whereas he put two squads of Pungari in his home building.

    Turn 1 I got his home building down to just 4 DPs left. I’m really boring that way. Turn 2 he won Initiative, searched with the Pungari, and what do you know? With four dice to throw he managed to roll a 6. Darn.

    Well, to make a long story short (too late!) he brought 2 squads of Firstborns for the rest of his Infantry, while I had another squad of Legionnaires in a Raven A, a squad of Praetorians, and a squad of Hazard Suits for my four squads of Infantry. I moved my other three squads of infantry right up to the WMD building Turn 1, and got the Praetorians and Hazard Suits into it pronto on Turn 2 so that I would be the occupier. (Aren’t you proud of me? ;-)).

    After they found their lucky objective, one squad of Pungari went up to the mothership, while the other went into the central building on my right, and then one of the two squads of Firstborns got in the central building on my left. The other squad of Firstborns joined the party in the WMD building.

    I made 3 crucial mistakes, in that instead of putting my second squad of Legionnaires into the WMD building, they made a dash to the Pungari’s building, thinking they’d have an easy fight (Mistake #1 – should have put them into the WMD building). Well, his Firstborns got lucky and found their objective, I had both the Praetorians and the Hazard Suits fight the Firstborns in the WMD building (Mistake #2, but I wanted/needed the FBs to have to split their dice between my two squads), but I also “got lucky” and found the objective. His CQB dice were hot all around, the Firstborns beat up my two Exotics squads, and the second squad of Firstborns joined in, so now neither of my squads could escape with the objective, and his Pungari beat the living shit out of my Legionnaires, and they thought it was so much fun that they had the second squad of Pungari join them! (Mistake #3, or rather #1.5, I forgot about the ankle biters that were back up on the motherfeckingship).

    So, even though I had taken out ALL of his AA (two squads of Birdeaters) and could easily have flown a Raven A with Hazard Suits or Legionnaires off of his board edge with the WMD objective for 3 lovely VPs, I screwed up with my Infantry placement. Didn’t help that he got two lucky rolls and found his two objectives the first time they were searched for, but that doesn’t forgive my mistakes. So I called it after Turn 4, there was no way for me to recover…

    I guess that’s what I get for being boring and stupid… ๐Ÿ˜›

    But it was still a fun game. Because, even a bad day of gaming beats a good day of work, and it especially beats a day of looking for work.

    I hope you’ve enjoyed this boring tale of stupidity and woe. And I hope you enjoy the rest of your vacation away from home. And I will endeavor to put up some posts on my own, poor, neglected blog… In between filling out job applications online… And not being away from home on vacation… ๐Ÿ˜›


    (BTW, we both agreed that all Infantry capable of taking 3 or more bases in a squad should get the new “Horde” rule, which would suit your preference for taking Warriors in APCs, yes?). ๐Ÿ˜€

    (Thanks again for being such a good sport and putting up this post!)

    • A really fun read! Thank you. To clarify I do not think it is stupid to shoot down opponents building it is just so very obvious that it is hard to call anyone a tactical genius for figuring that tactic out.

      Those Shaltari are really pesky. I do like the change to the bunker you had. I have thought to have it for dense woods to enable people to play more with rural terrain.

      As always in dzc players can trace their loss to their decisions instead of their die rolls.

      I enjoy it a lot when people ask for posts as it clearly shows people are reading. It is the largest encouragement for me to post.

      • J.D. Welch says:

        Oh, good, I thought I’d pissed you off. Glad I hadn’t. It was a good read.

        Please go to the OB blog and read (or re-read) Ed’s post on the Menchit A2, or rather Dan’s interpretation of Ed’ scribblings, and then read my latest comment, and you’ll get an idea of my state of mind at the moment… ๐Ÿ˜›

        I check your blog every day, BTW, so please do write more, in between not breastfeeding your new child and doing whatever fabulous things you could otherwise be doing on your fabulous vacation somewhere fabulous, I’m sure, because I’m quite bored and very tense and NOT SMOKING! But I am vaping, but the wife doesn’t like me to vape in the house, so I have to do it when she’s not likely to pop in on me, which makes me even tenser (I don’t think that’s a word), but I do it anyway, because what is she going to do? Just nag at me again, that’s what, which is nothing new, we’ve been married for over 26 years, so you have that to look forward to, you lucky sod, but in the meantime take advantage of your wife breastfeeding, which is a natural form of contraception of sorts, so you can practice procreating some more without much risk of actually procreating, and that’s a fun thing to do while on holiday, or I should say while your (currently) only child is still so young that she sleeps most of the time, so take advantage of that while you can because a time will soon come when you’d like to procreate some more, or at least practice at it, but you won’t have the time nor the opportunity, no matter how many days off you get (git), and, yes, I’m jealous, because my last job (bastards) only gave us 15 total days for paid time off (PTO) and that INCLUDED vacation AND sick time and any time you might need for an emergency (but not holidays, at least they gave us most of the standard US holidays off, but not Presidents Day, the bastards, but at least they didn’t switch Presidents Day for MLKing’s birthday like another former employer of mine did (also bastards), which is not a knock on Dr. King, but his birthday is too close to New Years and too far away from Memorial Day, so Presidents Day is just nicer to get cuz it’s in February), and then if you need to take any other time off once you’ve expended your measily 15 days on a little bit of vacation and catching some sort of god-awful stomach bug while attending the LVO in Las Vegas (did I mention I won?) because some thoughtless git didn’t wash his hands after going to the bathroom and then handled the very same casino chips that you ended up touching at the craps table (where you won $600 but you can’t tell your wife because she’d get pissed that you gambled in the first place, but you KNOW what you’re doing when it comes to craps) and then you have to make the 5 hour drive home with your intestines ready to ruin the upholstery of your car seat, but you make it home in time, but with a nasty cold on top of the god-awful stomach bug, so you’re out of commission for another week when you’re new on the job and you’re expending PTO days that you haven’t accumulated yet and they only let you “float” 16 hours forward, so you end up not getting paid for some of that time that you spent wracked up in gut-wrenching pain and not working at your new job…

        So, yeah, enjoy your 40 days off. Please. Do it for me, because I cant, cuz America. and we work ourselves to death, even when our employers give us a decent amount of time off… Which is nowhere NEAR the amount of PTO that Europeans get standard, but I guess that’s all First World Problems, eh?…

        What was I saying?…

        Oh, yeah, thanks for the blog post. Please do more, but don’t let it drag you away from doing something fun. Just while you’re sitting around on the beach or by the pool anyway, or whatever it is that you’re doing…